‘AND OF COURSE, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THE CONTINUING RANCOR ABOUT WHAT IS CORE AND WHAT IS NOT.’
FOUR WHEELS AND A BOARD
Betsy Gordon (BG) & Jane Rogers (JR)
January 2025
For people that do not know Smithsonian. Can you tell us in a few word that this organisation is all about?
BG: The Smithsonian Institution, founded 176 years ago, is the world’s largest museum, education, and research complex with 21 museums, 8 research centers, and the National Zoo. Collectively, there are 155.5M museum objects, including works of art, archaeology, palaeontology, history, and scientific specimens.
There are few Skateboard Museums out there. The most popular must be ‘Skateboarding Hall of Fame and Museum’. Are there any cooperations between museums or is a race for the rarest pieces?
JR: The Smithsonian relies on object donations to complete our collections. As curators we seek out particular objects and some are unsolicited. Due to space limitations and specific collecting plans we have to be fairly specific when collecting, we take a quality versus quantity approach. We haven’t run into any cross collecting with other skate museums yet although I’m sure if we were interested in borrowing or lending an object from or to another skate museum there would be cooperation.
The Smithsonian has just over 600 skateboarding objects. If there is one piece you could pick to be part of your skateboard collection, what would it be and why do you want it?
JR: It would be impossible for me to pick just a single object to augment the collection, but one that I would love to have been an original Nash Duke Kahanamoku skateboard.
As you have expertise on other sports, is there one which is similar to skateboarding in terms of history and culture?
JR: I would have to say surfing is the closest to skateboarding in terms of a shared culture perhaps because of the west coast connection, climate, and accessibility to the outdoors. That laid back vibe with connected fashion and music sensibilities further entwines the two. And as we discuss in the book, skateboarding owes much of its early history to surfing. Many skateboarders were, or still are surfers, replicating many of their surfing maneuvers to their skateboards. The technological innovations happening in surfing during the 60s and 70s also translated to skateboarding further connecting the two.
‘NOT ONLY DO I KNOW HIM, BUT HE HAS PERSONALLY DONATED THREE ICONIC SKATEBOARDS OF HIS TO THE SMITHSONIAN.’
What triggered the idea to publish a book about skateboarding?
BG: The idea for the book came out of an informal chat that we had in 2018. By that point, the skateboarding collection had grown into a significant documentation of American skateboard history. In anticipation of the 2020 Summer Olympic Games, we thought there was a great opportunity to create a skateboarding history book that used the Smithsonian’s collections.
JR: I was looking for a publishing project in 2018 and after my talk with Betsy it seemed like we both had an interest in getting the skate objects into the public eye and what better way than a publication that includes the thoughts and words of those actually involved in skateboarding using our collection objects to tell their stories.
My first impression was that it looks like a magazine in terms of layout and contributions from numerous sources. How difficult was it to pull it all together from these contributors?
BG: We were extremely lucky in that by 2018, because of Ramp and Innoskate, we knew a lot of folks in the skateboarding industry and community and had a pretty good sense of what stories they could contribute to the book. We knew that we wanted to chronical the history of skateboarding by decade, so we started to brainstorm contributors i.e., for the 60’s we wanted the pioneers like Craig Stecyk, Jim Fitzpatrick, etc. After we formed a wish list of contributors, we began making phone calls and sending emails. Almost everyone we reached out to agree to contribute. Getting the initial “yes” was easy. That said, the logistics of getting thirty individuals to adhere to a schedule, respond to editorial queries, identify photographers, etc. was a challenge, especially since Covid shut everything down. Somehow, with the enormous help from our editors at Smithsonian Books, we were able to finish the manuscript, get the photo permissions, write the captions, and send it off to the printer in time.
JR: It was Betsy and my first foray into writing and editing so we relied heavily on the wonderful folks at Smithsonian Books for advice and guidance. And as Betsy said, corralling over 30 skaters for oral history interviews, essays, and photographs during Covid was challenging at times but so much fun. Everyone was very cooperative and took suggestions well.
Getting a contribution from Rodney Mullen seems like winning the lottery. How much effort did it take to have him on board?
BG: Rodney Mullen is a big fan of the Smithsonian and has generously participated in many Innoskate programs. He gave an immediate “of course” to our ask for writing the foreword. We lucked out!
I noticed the number of interviews you conducted to capture oral histories. Which one stands for each of you and why?
BG: I would have to say Skip Engblom’s since we talked for three hours, ran down the battery of the recorder, and still didn’t get past 1980! He is a masterful storyteller and a charming individual. I hope we can finally finish that interview.
JR: Brian Anderson’s interview stood out to me. We had been back and forth discussing objects he had donated and had such a good rapport that it was great to meet him in person! His candor was very compelling and really brought a new perspective to his story.
In your closing comments you spoke about skateboarding in the Olympics. Blessing or curse from your perspective?
BG: The Olympics is a very complex issue that doesn’t fall into the simple binary of blessing or curse. There were positive outcomes from having skateboarding as an Olympic sport—the required parity between number of men and women participants and the exposure that women skateboarding received for example. The Olympic system—the enormous financial incentives that fuel the Games, the politics behind the selection of host cities, the administration and accountability of WorldSkate and other skate NGB’s—are all part of the “less than positive” aspects of skateboarding trying to find a place within the Olympics.
What is that you want to achieve with Four Wheels and a Board?
BG: For skaters, I hope it is worthy of their esteem. For non-skaters, I hope they are surprised and delighted to learn that skateboarding has a fascinating history.
JR: I’d like to expose our readers to the unexpected. I don’t think many Smithsonian visitors know we have this rich skateboarding history that tells so many stories about the American experience. And as Betsy says I hope skaters feel we got it right; they are very protective of their history.
What does the future hold for skateboarding? What does the post-Olympic future look like?
BG: Like we said in the book, skateboarding follows no script—it is all ad-lib and improv. However, based on trends we’ve seen in the last sixty years, I predict that there will be both boom and bust in the skateboard industry, hot brands, content sites, and skaters cresting and bottoming out, and bewildering collaborations between skate and god knows what. And of course, there will always be the continuing rancor about what is core and what is not.
I don’t see any material science breakthroughs that will change the way people skate like the urethane wheel did in the early 70s. Decks, wheels and trucks have been more or less the same since the 90s. However, skaters will continue to be early adopters of content making and sharing technology be it whatever replaces Instagram or the iPhone.
The Olympics? Maybe. Perhaps there will be a seismic shift in skateboard culture, but for now, competing in the Olympics is not the apex of many skaters’ careers. Most professional skaters do not compete, and for those that do, not all want to be an Olympian. That said, I am optimistic for the future of skateboarding. Olympics or not, kids will keep skating whenever, wherever, and however they want, making it up as the go along.
JR: Skateboarding has had its booms and busts over the years and has always come through so I have a feeling it will be fine. Skateboarding is so ingrained in popular culture these days and has become resurgent with skateparks popping up with the help of Tony Hawk and other nonprofit foundations. There will always be kids (and adults) that skate because you don’t really grow out of skating. The Olympics are the big question mark. Will the legitimacy of the Olympics bring about a different aspect of skating, slalom, timed trials, something more concrete and less subjective than street and park that is dominate now? Time will tell.
Last question. If you could interview one person, who would it be and why?
BG: It would be Craig Stecyk, on film, for at least a week’s worth of interview sessions. Stecyk is skateboarding’s Homer, the originator of its myths and legends. Plus, no one tells a story like Craig. The interview would probably never make it to print and not make sense, but it would be an invaluable piece of history.
JR: I tend to go for the less obvious. I like to talk to the girls who are dropping in at the local skate park or the adaptive rider who is in their wheelchair grinding curbs. Those are the everyday stories that make skating so interesting and sometime the ones that make the greatest impact.
‘HE IS A MASTERFUL STORYTELLER AND A CHARMING INDIVIDUAL.’
